Post-Virginity Auction Plans for the Blog

May 23, 2014 - a bit modified from my May 20th plans.

First, despite my love for the blog, I’ve decided I need a long break from it - on the order of months. This was a decision made begrudgingly, but I simply need both distance from the auction and time to get my life back in order. So, there won’t be much of anything happening here for a while. Sorry. Eventually, however, I will be back in full force with a new and much improved blog to boot! You should become a follower so you will be alerted as soon as this happens (see how I did that), or also feel free to send me a personal email and I will gladly keep you up-to-date.

While I do have a couple of months to develop my vision for the new blog and will use this time well, today I want to give you at least a vague idea of my thinking so far.

In some ways, I want the new blog to be very similar to the old one – light and whimsical, and yet insightful and intriguing (I flatter myself, I know). In addition, I of course still want to be able to say what I want whenever I want. However, what was very lost amongst the kerfuffle and scandal of the auction was discussion on several important social topics that are very much a part of my story. Examples include:

  1. the oppressive history of virginity.
  2. the human rights and policy debate surrounding sex work (which is noticeably deficient in the United States).
  3. more generally, the social acceptability of slut-shaming (we’ve all done it in thoughtless moments).
  4. far too many others to list!

It is my first intention to correct this oversight on the new blog (and I won’t stop at that), and it will surely be much better for it! As well as a bit more “respectable.”

So, to sum things up honestly,  I think you will find the new blog to be a combination of me entertaining myself (and hopefully you) and educating myself (and hopefully you); two activities that are very often one and the same in my way of living. And the topics covered will be quite broad and include sex, virginity, sex work, sexual health, sexual equality, sexual politics, women’s rights, women’s health…. you get the gist. In addition, I can guarantee you that the new blog will be more meaningful, well-researched, thought-provoking, useful, and something I personally care so much more about.

I hope you will let me know what you think! There is still a lot of work to be done, so any feedback is very welcome and will be given all consideration. In addition, the blog title is absolutely still negotiable, so try and come up with something better if you can!

1,002 thoughts on “Post-Virginity Auction Plans for the Blog

  1. You are so interesting! I don’t believe I’ve read something
    like that before. So good to find somebody with genuine thoughts on this
    subject. Seriously.. thank you for starting this up.
    This website is one thing that is needed on the internet, someone
    with some originality!

  2. A man who pay for a woman it is not a man…… Sex have to be something special, lovable, full of magic. And not about money… is just a respect thing i have to much respect for women’s to even think about buying one like she is a cow or a goat or something.

    • Two things quickly

      (1) If you want to attach that meaning to sex, that is absolutely your choice and I don’t judge you for it. But I think in this time, it should be clear that sex does not always have to be “special, lovable, full of magic” for everyone every time.

      (2) You’re not buying the woman, you’re buying the service.

  3. Liz,
    As a guy whose an older virgin I’ve been finding this blog interesting to read as it helps me to understand the woman’s perspective on this issue. =)

  4. Liz,

    I’m so happy you are keeping this going. I was getting misty-eyed thinking our fun would end with the auction. Sure, it was only a month or so, but I was seeing a group of regulars beginning to gel. Now, we get to stick around to amuse and confuse you :)

    Here’s a topic that probably should be discussed soon, since it might get to the root cause of many of these issues, like the long-standing existence of double-standards, for example: How many people really like sex?

    My guess is that almost all men and many women do. This means that there are a small number of men and a much larger number of women who view on sex ranges from hating it to being able to take it or leave it. Do you have any insight as to a difference in the desire for sex? Of course, this is coming from the guy who enthusiastically gave away his virginity for free to the first girl who asked for it to the woman who wouldn’t sell hers for huge money. :D

    • At first I was titillated and intrigued for obvious reasons, but once I actually began reading “Elizabeth’s” musings, my intrigue moved to an entirely different level. I’m therefore also very happy that this forum will continue. Another topic that seems glaringly absent is a discussion of religion and it’s significant contribution to these woman’s issues. Elizabeth, what are your beliefs and thoughts on religion and it’s role in these issues/beliefs/values/judgements?

      • Ooh good topic! And there’s going be a lot on it. Generally though, I think the importance religion places on chastity is unhealthy and repressive.

      • Especially, the glaring double-standard. I’m not sure any religion values male chastity and purity.

  5. I’m a guy, and your story is Very! powerful. I didn’t get that at first. I was busy singing, jumping and hopping down the bunny trail of your erotic fantasy. Then Pow! the reality of how far we still have to go towards woman’s liberation and gender equality hit me.

    Indeed recognition of the value and legitimacy of sex work may be the last frontier of woman’s liberation. I found the controversy, and consternation over the simple exercise of your human rights very disappointing and disturbing. But I think you handled it all excellently.

    You’re very bright, and quite a climb for me. But sometimes I think I kind of get it. Your a very attractive, brilliant, accomplished woman. Comfortable in your intellectual acumen and concomitant virginity. Interested in exploring your sexuality.

    But not wanting to waste your time or virginity fumbling around with neophytes of limited means, experience and ability to fully appreciate your offer and time. A man able to pay your price would be more likely to have the qualities you desired as introduction to the world of carnal pleasures.

    By extrapolation it would make sense that sex work could be used as a selective filtering mechanism for quality dates with which to learn and explore your sexuality and passions. Thereby making the best use of your time and considerable charm’s until Mr. Right comes along.

    But the gender inequity in our society doesn’t want to let you do that without trying to penalize you in some way, and that must change. Maybe women like you will change this for future generations to come. I hope so.

    Thank you for sharing Liz :-) X

  6. Just drop by to say hello as I still wonder who will be your first, last and the best… the best luck to you, lovely pretty princess… xoxo

  7. You know, if you look at the bright side of things, a man can’t really sell his virginity for a dime,and some women squander it a way with some random stranger. I think for a woman at least it should have some sort of meaning, it would be best if she wait for a loving and committed relationship before she decide it.

  8. Hi there Liz :) , first off I would like to say in my case you are wrong about what brought me here, I was intrigued, and that curiosity for me was to learn about the mind of the lady behind the beautiful face and body. From what I have read you seam like a perfectly normal, intelligent woman who thinks for herself. I may be wrong, b ut I believe you started something that you didn’t think through quite as well as you thought you had, but learned a lot about yourself along the way, things that were already there but maybe needed this to grow. I’m glad you cancelled this, because really you got from this what you needed “growth” . I think you are a brave beautiful woman with a great future. I think we are going to hear good things from you for many years to come.
    Good luck to you in your career and may life treat you kind.
    Tracey

  9. Hi Liz
    I am really shocked by this story. No, not shocked about you or even about your morals, but rather shocked about the response your action had.

    First of all, there are millions of prostitutes out there:
    In a particular G7 country it’s said to be at least 1 in every 100 women.
    In same country, there are so called flat-rate-brothels- shocking !
    30% of internet traffic is related to pornography & sex – truly shocking !
    Finally, just a minor point, prostitution is not only about female exploitation, as there are also many male prostitutes being exploited world-wide.

    So what is all the fuzz about?

    1) If your action was a genuine attempt to raise some money to pay off your crippling student debt, then you should have been a bit cleverer by vetting your bidders before allowing them to place their bids. Bad business sense, and we all learned from your mistake – better luck for the next virgin :-)

    2) Was it all a joke? Then you certainly have the last laugh. You exposed the terrible double standards of the good moral apostles in this world.

    3) Was it a social experiment? – result as for (2) above.

    I don’t think that your intention was as clear cut as 1,2,3 above nor did you ever expect this reaction to your web-auction. I surely wouldn’t have. Your idea was certainly not new. It strikes me as a mere variation of the 21 year old film “Indecent Proposal” with Robert Redford.

    So, good people of this world, leave Liz alone, she certainly does not deserve your moral outrage! Liz did only copy-right an idea which many people must have contemplated before. Good for her!

    Now go and sit your forthcoming exams. Tell your Professors that their moral outrage sullied the name of their prestigious campus more than your auction.

    And if you want to pay off your student loan, go and sell this story to the Hollywood producers. I am sure that the good people will be happy to pay for enjoying your “outrageous!” experiment.

    Well done Liz ! Only sorry that I did not come up with your idea first.

    Patrik.

  10. I feel like I should respond to or post to this, so I am.
    Your virginity, or rather any time you engage in sex is all about your choice. Any way you choose to go about it is all about you..
    I feel the whole ordeal had a powerful message, or rather messages. There was positive and negative sides to it. But, ultimately, I don’t think there should be a price tag on your first time, though that is merely my opinion, and not something that should sway the mind of any person.

  11. Hmmmmm you know i wonder if a man puts his virginity up for auction if he would get true to sell it and how much it will go for. Liz would u bid on him?.

  12. Women need to value their bodies more and realize you give a part of yourself away when you have sex. You can’t give yourself to any man. Just because you’re desired, doesn’t mean you’re valued. Set a good example for young ladies so they give themselves to worthy men who value women, not rich ones who buy prostitutes.

    • You don’t give part of yourself away when you have sex. If you make the conscious decision to associate sex with a ”loss” that is your choice but don’t prescribe your views to everyone else!

      A woman can use a man for sex just as much as a man can. Thinking sex is some sort of validation of your own personal worth is just twisted. Your worth is beyond sex, you don’t define the value of yourself and base your self esteem on how men respond to you.

      This attitude is damaging. You can have sex with whomever you want, and take from and give to the experience whatever you want. But you are not defined by it. It is just an action.

      You don’t judge people by the hugs that they give or receive, or whether they have the ability to procreate or not, so why on earth would you attempt to define someone’s value based on their sexual relations.

      I think “women need to value their” brains more, and realize that they can be appreciated by more than just their bodies.

      Liz, I thoroughly disagree.

      • I totally disagree with you, you must be a man, Women do give something away the first time they have sex, something men don’t have, its called a hymen, maybe you’ve heard of it? it’s something we can never get back, so saying that if we chose to value our bodies as part of our own personal worth is “just twisted” is a deplorable remark!! Maybe when men start bearing children they will have a little more understanding of what it means to respect sex, or when they are one of the 1,871 women who are raped per day in the united states alone.

  13. I honestly can’t help but to wonder if this entire thing was nothing more than a social experiment preformed by a college student for a project in one of her courses. I have absolutely no doubt that this is or can be a amazing learning experience for those who are willing to open their minds to the lesson herein….

      • did you not expect ANY publicity? after you did formal interviews over the whole topic? Did you think NONE of this would get out? And due to these things changing, you all of a sudden DON’T want to fulfill your end of the bargain? The internet can be like a small town, everyone knows your business. Plain and simple.

        I’d say you lack the cajones to go through with it. If you fail now, wouldn’t any other endeavor you participate in be a failure too? your just setting yourself up. I’d say, finish what you started! ;)

      • to Len, she did finish what she started, she learned that who she is, is worth more than $800,000 I’d say that’s a pretty damn good end result ;)

  14. Going to take a guess here and congratulate you on a novel and grandiose doctoral project. Wonder how long it will take for reality to set in on those who became involved. Hope you have not gone too far, people rarely enjoy being made a fool of, and others take note.

    • I wonder if any of the bidders will ask for a refund claiming that this was not a real auction since the service was never rendered due to a decision by the seller.

      I’m sure it’s a well-guarded secret, but when was the exact moment Liz decided that she was not going to deliver the goods. Was it really on May 8? Or when she outed herself? Or, as some have been speculating for a while, was this the plan from the get-go? I’m not sure we’ll ever know.

  15. She made her money from the $100 to bid on her, very smart. Who knows how many bids she had. Likely enough to pay a chunk for school.

  16. I think she is a amazing business woman… She’s 28 and yet still a virgin, she must be crazy but I think she’s hot for doing this project… Also I don’t think this(project)is prostitution… Next time I wanna read and article a “MAN” auctioning his virginity at 35… BTW, a handsome man not a dirty OLD man :)

  17. Liz,
    It is a pleasure to see that, perhaps even though it is for a short duration of time, you came at terms with your conscience and inner self and took this decision of backing out yourself. First of all, I would like to say that it is a very bold step to sell oneself oneline through an auction and it is even a bolder step to cancel it at the last moment when you know that you will be pocketing a massive fortune of $801,000 which for a poor person like me at present is such a towering figure.
    I felt really very happy, when I saw this news of yours yesterday and I thanked God for my prayers had been answered. I seriously wanted to help you go back in your studies and medical school. I did it just because I considered you like a distant friend, that’s it. I did not take pity on you, but I just wished to show you perhaps a little bit of what life is. And therefore, I thought, why not you find for yourself a man, who will suit all of your needs.

    I am a single man and I know how painful it is to remain single! I do not involve myself in emotional attachment to anyone in my country, because my dream girl is actually from a very distant place and I have not seen her actual face yet, as it was traslucent in my dreams.
    One of the reasons, I tried to help you Liz, is because I felt perhaps my dream girl thousands of miles away who might have also seen me in her dreams long time back, might come to know how I tried to help you and might feel proud of me..:)..
    To conclude, again it was a wise decision on your part. Retain this charishmatic self of yours and all the best to you and your research in medical school, Liz and enjoy your life, well!..:)

  18. She is a grown adult with a great career granted to some it would be bad and others an opportunity of a life time to make a crap load of money I see it as ones free will to do as she pleases besides I can guarantee those who are judging have far worse in his or her closet or simply havent lived the freedom they wanted and to be frank im certain she is aware of the repercussions of all the judgement from everyone but what makes her better than the critics she doesnt im sure give a care of what any yahoo thinks of her so im saying get over it dont judge others by judging your no better than who your judging

  19. Jesus, I can’t believe all the comments of support here. This is prostitution, plain and simple. Personally, I don’t mind and I don’t care, I would legalize it. I just think you should call things by their real name.

    • And if you read some of Liz’s comments, she does call it prostitution as well. She has not tried to say differently.

      • vombi, another ugly truth is adult illiteracy.

        Your only defense is that you didn’t bother to read the site or even the title of the blog. Sloth is a deadly sin. This is not your day :)

  20. I hope that even though your main site is closed down, because bidding is over, that doesn’t mean you aren’t going to keep blogging and responding here.

  21. Perhaps Elizabeth Raine never intended to sell her virginity in the first place, perhaps for all we know she is not a virgin, that said what is fascination is how the bidding in recent weeks the bidding ramped up. Ramped up because she was a virgin which somehow is suppose to mean as a woman she is a ‘rarefied commodity who is worth more’ or ramped up because given her obvious good lithe looks was well worth the money that many men amply throw at women who look as good as Elizabeth Raine, which is to say a woman is only valuable if she looks and of course behaves the part …..

    http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2014/05/elizabeth-raine-will-sell-virginity-800-000-will-resume-studies-instead/

    • no, its clear it was legitimate, because the huffingtonpost verified her identity and such before their article last week. the cancellation here has all the hallmarks of a sincere change of heart, perhaps influencing in part by the effect it was having on your her real life schooling.

  22. When I first read this I was like ” oh , my damn!”
    Not because I was shocked , but because well damn why didnt I think of that? Lets be real people . Virginity has become less and less important over the many years anyway . More girls started losing their virginity at younger ages and out of wedlock . May it be of choice or rape. It is the state of our society. We can blame who we want. It is what it is. This lady is doing it on her own terms . Sex has always been and always will be the top seller. Sex will always have the fanatic religious groups ready to brand someone even though there daughters are having sex also. Whatever ! Sex is sex .. it will always sell.

  23. Times up! Do we have a wiener?

    I hope so. Now comes the hard part … pun machine … stuck in “on” position.

    • Plexico, I kinda hate to see this come to an end unless Elizabeth gives us an update after the deed is done. Your color commentary was very funny at times. I wished Elizabeth would get you bound under a confidentiality agreement to not expose the identity of the winning bidder unless he doesn’t mind. You could then do a written play by play for us. We may be talking a Pay Per Written event here.

      • Thank you, singdancing and touchtone. If Liz is willing to keep the blog going, I’ll follow it and speak my mind. It’s been fun so far. I hope it goes on.

      • I agree with touchtone!! I almost like reading your comments Plexico, better than Liz’s lol. DAMN I’m just seeing the conclusion lol she backed out huh? This was all a game or experiment…kinda disappointed. I sure hope the comments about someone seeking revenge for feeling duped is wrong…good luck ‘Liz”.

      • It wasn’t a game or an experiment. The publicity grew out of control and changed things. I’m sorry you’re disappointed though.

        And don’t worry, no one is seeking any revenge on me.

        I enjoy Plexico’s comments more than mine too, so no blame there.

      • Tina,

        Thanks, again. I replied to you on an earlier comment inviting you to write to me to see where we go from here.

        I agree. Kind of an anti-climactic ending (double-entendre, FTW!) Here’s my Hollywood ending for this drama: One guy ponies up $1 million to win. After eluding nosy reporters in a drawn-out motorcycle chase (we need something for the dudes in this blatant chick-flick), she meets him and he’s a handsome gentleman in his early 30′s. At dinner, he says he doesn’t want to have sex with her tonight, and will still give her the money if she simply pledges to give her virginity to someone she truly loves. She agrees.

        After a pleasant evening, she walks away richer and still untouched. Later, she finds out that he wasn’t that rich and the million dollars was most of what he had. She is so moved by his sacrifice that she falls in love with him and they get together. The end.

  24. Elizabeth – since you are a medical student and have degrees in science, I was just wondering if you were considering the risks to your health? Even if you have the winning bidder take medical tests within 24 hours of your meeting, he could still harbor the HIV virus undetected. Additionally, even if you have protected sex, you are still at risk for contracting an STI. Why not wait to lose your virginity when you know your sexual partner for a long time and can verify his health status? Unless you are terminally ill (which I considered as a possibility), why take a risk with your life?

  25. Can someone help me find my comment because I wanted to reread it make sure there was no misstypes and can’t find it.

  26. To this vibrate young model looking woman. If this was a stunt for u to get some attention or mannipulate public for cash I guess it sounds like one hell of a hustle and risk. Risk in so many ways. Hope u got a little street smarts when advertising your prize possesions the way u do. I personally would never do what your doing but would hope the best for whomever would stoop that low. Now I’m not sure if u care to hear my opinion because I’m just a stranger from public in relations to u. I had another quick thought but not sure if this will ever get to u because I’m computer dummy with busy schedule and no patience for adjusting settings setting up emails to where when I send one it comes back to me instead of where I want email to go. Lol. Anyways my semi quick thought would be with no disrespect of course, that maybe some how scene u seem a little intelligent with your hustle that maybe you can switch it up a little to prove its for donating. What I mean is instead of advertising virginity for auction to highest bitter, maybe u can do a even swap of some sort like I will or u will give your georgeous american virginity up to whomever can rat out or turn in the biggest amount of children that were sold into sex slavery. What a hell of a donation that can be. Whatch u think? That was just first idea that popped in my head.shan. I think its such a gift to all those innocent little girls boys teens that were taken against will or tricked into the sick sex slavery all across the world..signed lovely shannon.

  27. Hi Liz,
    I was just curious – what if a woman were to win the bid? I read through your site and it defines intercourse as strictly being a penis entering a vagina. With that point being brought to the forefront, what were to happen if a woman ended up winning the bid on your virginity? Would you then pursue other bidders, or would you allow yourself to succumb to the woman (pending personality)?

    I am unsure how I came about thinking about this. I suppose the mind dictates thoughts as a result of what is read, seen, heard or experienced and processes it in odd ways sometimes.

    I would love to receive a reply though, and best of luck on everything. I do admire what you are doing.

  28. each event changes our lives, some more than others, some decided by us. The soul grows like a child, if it is eternal, in the truth it will have time to enjoy or suffer for the choices made if not it leaves at least the world a story.

  29. Gosh, Liz; I dunno. OK; l’ll assume that you’re sincere and not just a honey pot, compiling, for some nefarious purpose, a database of guys wealthy enough to place a legitimate bid. Freedom and liberty and “extraordinary personal adventure” aside, there’s always the problem of unforeseen consequences. At 29, you’re simply not as wise as you’ll be when you’re 50. Heck; I have friends who regret the tattoos that they bought as adolescents. You’re now internationally notorious and that’ll never go away. Ever. Just ask Mr. Zuckerberg; digital dandruff has made him silly rich. And it’s simply not possible to predict at this juncture how your tryst will affect your future, regardless of how much you’re paid.

    Consider this: You can have a fulfilling, monogamous relationship, and more money than you could spend in a lifetime. You just hafta find The Right Guy.

    Example: Priscilla Chan Zuckerberg, MD. The Zuckerbergs have a household net worth of $25.4B, half of which they will give away, having signed the Giving Pledge.

    Better Example: Melinda Ann French Gates. She was the age that you are now when she married Bill. Dunno if she was a virgin (Bill wasn’t drunk enough to respond directly to the question when we asked him at his bachelor party), but just the 15-minute wedding ceremony alone was $1M. Their primary residence is worth at least $125M, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is currently endowed at $38.3B. That amount of money is making a seriously-positive difference in our world.

    You may think of yourself as a maverick, but use your best social intelligence here. If you go through with this, how will you feel about wearing The Scarlet Letter? Because that’s how the Squares on this planet will judge you: Damaged Goods.

    Sounds like you’ve already accomplished much. As a physician, you could be the next Dr. Oz, in terms of what you might do, say, for public health. Or as a medical advisor to the Gates Foundation. But not gonna happen once if they find out that you were “Elizabeth Raine,” Virgin Whore.

    May you live long and prosper.

    • Quick question for you. In ten years, if you get curious about how Liz is doing, how are you going to find the answer? The reason for this question is, do you know Liz’s real name? I certainly don’t, and even though she released her pictures of herself, she hasn’t released her real name. If she doesn’t release it, How will you look her up in 10 years to see how she is doing?

    • Alex, you make a well thought and articulate argument, though lacking in substance that would be considered pertinent to the issue at hand. You base your argument on the assumption that “Liz” wishes to be married to a billionaire. I do not recall her revealing that as her life’s ambition.

      While she may wear her scarlet letter for a time, I’m assuming even you are aware scarlet fades over time. Many men and women have publicly shunned societal ethics and endured scorn for their decisions; only to be forgotten soon after by some other societal dissident’s actions.

      True, some will see her as “damaged goods”, but it is also true some will not. In the end, only her opinion of herself will be the defining characteristic on whether she is successful in life or not.

      Peace. And long life.

    • Really calling Liz damaged goods is like calling Kim Kardashian a saint. The women has a sex tape and no one is calling her damaged goods or branding her with a scarlet letter?? It is okay to see teenagers on tv depicting sexual acts but nothing is said about that? No you want to call ber out because she herself has never had sex and has decided to make her first time memorable and definitely different.

      Why should she have a fulfilling monogamous relationship? We see ppl everyday having one night stands and no one so much as thinks twice about that.

      I say let her do with HER BODY exactly what SHE wants. So what if she wants to sell of her virginity.

      • What are you, nuts? EVERYBODY refers to Kim Kardashian as the soulless, vacuous whore she has always been.That’s her bread and butter. It’s what she’s famous FOR. What planet do you live on?

  30. You are being criticized for being honest. Women have always sold their sex indirectly. They always go for men with money. Someone who can take care of them financially. Marriage is generally a long term contract where as you are proposing a 12 hour one. Men value sex and women know it. You are just selling your goods on your own terms with no strings attached. As a single woman you should have sex with who ever you want for whatever you want.

    • Why would that be her responsibility? If your husband bids on her shame on him. Why do women in general always do that? Blame the other woman, it’s not her it’s your man!

    • Shouldn’t you ask the married man why he is bidding in the first place before you chastise her? Plus, unless you’re the highest bidder, it’s really none of your business.

      • I’m just thinking it should matter to her…it would matter to me….probably some rich a$$$ hole…the wife is probably clueless, but still…..I would think she might care about if he’s married or not

    • It’s a very convoluted, labyrinthine, esoteric and exclusive process.

      If you send me your bank account number and routing number, I’ll be happy to act as your agent :)

      The :) means I’m totally legit.

    • Try 713-866-6249.

      Please send my 15% finder’s fee (150 000$$$$$) to:

      Plexico Agency
      PO Box 1313
      Lagos, Nigeria

      Good luck, man!

      • That’s more than a little bit sad. You really have no other redeeming qualities than being abstinent?

        Maybe you should take some time to improving your personal qualities. Not allowing a penis to enter your vagina is a fairly minimal achievement. You can work on being more caring and compassionate, becoming a better listener, or you could learn to juggle.

      • well one quality is that she can read and write. she values being a virgin for reasons you may have to ask to understand. she values her voice or she would not bother posting in this forum. I am sure she has many qualities that other than “not letting a penis inside her vagina.” for all you know she may be able to juggle. or she may be a quadrapilegic. there are so many possibilities of what this woman could be when you put your mind to it.

    • well for 1 000 000 i say its to much money in germany there are a women she search some toy boys for free . well a reponse to the virginity auction from liz . for free sex with a big amazing women with milliard money and party all the summer . well i can imagine the succes here . like the auction . like the world . like what the women make some understand with nothing really miracle.

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